Discussion:
Things to do in Cleveland when you're dead
(too old to reply)
Howard
2011-03-27 17:51:08 UTC
Permalink
The writer probably hasn't heard early Neil Diamond, who was very good
indeed. But I didn't know that the likes of Steve and Jethro (Miller
and Tull, respectively) were in the same company as Warren (Zevon),
namely, excluded from the Hall. Makes me feel better somehow.

http://www.bakersfield.com/entertainment/local/x529880104/SCOTT-COX-How-my-generation-killed-rock-n-roll
lpfeffa
2011-03-27 18:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
The writer probably hasn't heard early Neil Diamond, who was very good
indeed. But I didn't know that the likes of Steve and Jethro (Miller
and Tull, respectively) were in the same company as Warren (Zevon),
namely, excluded from the Hall. Makes me feel better somehow.
http://www.bakersfield.com/entertainment/local/x529880104/SCOTT-COX-How-my-generation-killed-rock-n-roll
Wow. That second commenter is vehement. Can't spell worth
shit, but sure has strongly held opinions!

Thanks for posting this, Howard.

-- Lucy
j***@LYC0S.C0M
2011-03-27 22:58:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
http://www.bakersfield.com/entertainment/local/x529880104/SCOTT-COX-How-my-generation-killed-rock-n-roll
I can safely say that, except for some of those mid-60's songs, I'd be
pretty quick to change the station if any Neil Diamond tune came on.
But I still much rather hear those few mid-60's Diamond songs before I'd
listen to anything like the absolute dreck by bands like Kiss, Styx,
Deep Purple, The Doobie Brothers, Chicago, Rush, ELO, Foreigner, Bad
Company, Cheap Trick, Peter Frampton, T. Rex, Meatloaf, Steve Miller
Band, Yes and Heart. God, just reading the names of those bands makes
me fear that I'll create an earworm of one of their "hits" that will
torture me for days. Worthless, bloated cliche "pop" music.

I'm sort of insulted that Zevon's name is even among most of them...
Howard
2011-03-29 04:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@LYC0S.C0M
http://www.bakersfield.com/entertainment/local/x529880104/SCOTT-COX-H...
I can safely say that, except for some of those mid-60's songs, I'd be
pretty quick to change the station if any Neil Diamond tune came on.
But I still much rather hear those few mid-60's Diamond songs before I'd
listen to anything like the absolute dreck by bands like Kiss, Styx,
Deep Purple, The Doobie Brothers, Chicago, Rush, ELO, Foreigner, Bad
Company, Cheap Trick, Peter Frampton, T. Rex, Meatloaf, Steve Miller
Band, Yes and Heart.  God, just reading the names of those bands makes
me fear that I'll create an earworm of one of their "hits" that will
torture me for days.  Worthless, bloated cliche "pop" music.
I'm sort of insulted that Zevon's name is even among most of them...
Wow, that's quite a list of dreck (iyho). I disagree with most of your
assessments. Out of that list, I was quite fond of the Doobies and
Deep Purple in the '80s. The others I could take or leave, although I
admit I could not ID a song by either Kiss or T. Rex. But I have a
much more eclectic inclusion list than you. Most artists make the cut
on the little commercial radio I still listen to. I have exited stores
in disgust, though, for sending certain pop artists' bleatings out
over the speakers. Top of the list is Cher (if I ever have to hear
more than one bar of Do You Believe in Life After Love I'm tempted to
commit hara kiri on the spot, followed by the likes of Barbra and
Celine, James Blunt, Bette Midler, any cover of my Canadian hero
Gordon Lightfoot, etc. But Two Out of Three Ain't Bad? Ain't bad afaic.
j***@LYC0S.C0M
2011-03-29 11:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
Post by j***@LYC0S.C0M
http://www.bakersfield.com/entertainment/local/x529880104/SCOTT-COX-H...
I can safely say that, except for some of those mid-60's songs, I'd be
pretty quick to change the station if any Neil Diamond tune came on.
But I still much rather hear those few mid-60's Diamond songs before I'd
listen to anything like the absolute dreck by bands like Kiss, Styx,
Deep Purple, The Doobie Brothers, Chicago, Rush, ELO, Foreigner, Bad
Company, Cheap Trick, Peter Frampton, T. Rex, Meatloaf, Steve Miller
Band, Yes and Heart. God, just reading the names of those bands makes
me fear that I'll create an earworm of one of their "hits" that will
torture me for days. Worthless, bloated cliche "pop" music.
I'm sort of insulted that Zevon's name is even among most of them...
Wow, that's quite a list of dreck (iyho). I disagree with most of your
assessments. Out of that list, I was quite fond of the Doobies and
Deep Purple in the '80s. The others I could take or leave, although I
admit I could not ID a song by either Kiss or T. Rex. But I have a
much more eclectic inclusion list than you.
Because I don't care for the bloated/overproduced "arena rock - hair
band - MOR - 70's FM Rock Standards" sub-genres of "Rock", your tastes
are more "eclectic" than mine? Wow. I'd gladly put my collection of
music up against anyone's for it breadth and variety of music genres and
artists.

That list of "artists" looks like the typical playlist of every bad
repetitive FM station that helped kill radio. The sorts of stations
that might play the "one hit wonder" Warren Zevon's "Werewolves of
London"- if it's Halloween.

(But mostly I just posted in such an opinionated manner to see if this
newsgroup can be revived...).
lpfeffa
2011-03-29 11:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@LYC0S.C0M
(But mostly I just posted in such an opinionated manner to
see if this newsgroup can be revived...).
OK...Jimmy Webb's now the chair of the Songwriters'
HoF...and thinks WZ should be in it. Our old friend Kent
posted this to the WZBB:

"I finally scratched another item off my bucket list. And
helped clear up (maybe a little) our nagging questions about
WZ's place in the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

I sat down and interviewed Jimmy Webb. It's a for a local
cable channel where I'm a freelancer. Jimmy was in St. Louis
for three shows. It took a little work but I managed to
check my fan-geek at the door and have a nice,
halfway-intelligent chat (I think) with him for about an
hour before his last performance last night. We covered the
waterfront, from his early days in Oklahoma to his
five-decade career, his family, his thoughts on the current
state of songwriting (not optimistic), how he approaches the
whole creative process and why he feels he still hasn't
written a song on the level of "You've Lost That Lovin'
Feeling." An amazing, extremely passionate and very
articulate artist, we could have gone on for another hour or
three but the show (his show) must go on, as they say.

After our main interview and he was preparing to head off
for his show, I walked with him to grab a cup of coffee and
asked him about Warren's chances in the Songwriter Hall of
Fame (which Jimmy now chairs, succeeding Hal David last
month). He was very quick to respond that "Oh, he'll get in
... he'll get in." He reminded me how he was close to Warren
for years and he wants to see Our Hero in there, too. As he
put it, "He has my vote." I gathered it's not a matter of if
but when Warren will be inducted.

But then Jimmy noted (as many of us have pretty much
assumed) how the Songwriters HoF is made up of a lot of very
different individuals and everyone's pulling for their own
nominee. "Now the rappers say we need to put them in, too,"
he said, with a little frustration. "They want us to put in
Tupac Shakur, y'know? Tupac Shakur!" In our interview, we’d
talked about rap and he used Eminem as an example of someone
who can write lyrics very well but not necessarily music. To
him, rap is more about lyrics but much less about the melody
and rhythm. The point he made about the HoF, though, is that
although he knows Warren deserves to be inducted (and will
be someday), every vote every year is as political as it is
artistic. “And now I’m in the middle of it” as chairman, he
noted with a shrug.
I think his perspective could easily be applied to the Rock
‘n Roll HoF: Consider the politics in the Songwriters Hall,
magnify it a gazillion times and I think this must be what
induction in the Rock 'n Roll Hall is like.

So I feel a little better about Our Hero’s chances of
finally making the Songwriters Hall of Fame, especially now
that Jimmy Webb’s chairing it. Just can’t say when. Everyone
who would be named to the Hall (or any Hall, for that
matter) needs an inside champion, and I think Jimmy is one
of Warren's.

And if Jimmy ever comes around your neck o' the woods with
his show, spend the time and money to catch him. I promise
you won't regret it."

Here's hoping...
Howard
2011-03-31 11:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@LYC0S.C0M
Because I don't care for the bloated/overproduced "arena rock - hair
band - MOR - 70's FM Rock Standards" sub-genres of "Rock", your tastes
are more "eclectic" than mine?  Wow. I'd gladly put my collection of
music up against anyone's for it breadth and variety of music genres and
artists.
That list of "artists" looks like the typical playlist of every bad
repetitive FM station that helped kill radio.  The sorts of stations
that might play the "one hit wonder" Warren Zevon's "Werewolves of
London"- if it's Halloween.
(But mostly I just posted in such an opinionated manner to see if this
newsgroup can be revived...).
Doubt it.
j***@LYC0S.C0M
2011-04-01 15:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
Post by j***@LYC0S.C0M
(But mostly I just posted in such an opinionated manner to see if this
newsgroup can be revived...).
Doubt it.
You doubt that why I responded so vehemently OR you doubt the ng can be
revived?

I guess newsgroup in general are at this point so "20th century" and
people have moved to tweeting and Facebooking.

One of the few I still read is the Springsteen one, which is mostly
politics (left-wing working class Springsteen has a small group of
rather outspoken right-wing fans- even a birther posts over there- go
figure).

If you look over there (rec.music.artists.springsteen) they're going
through a series of posts titled "Five from ____" with many of those
same "bad rock groups" mentioned.

"I can't believe Springsteen fans LISTEN to such crap..." I read, so it
was just more of the same when I read the linked article in the OP.

My apologies, Howard- must have been a shock to (a) post again, then (b)
get a reply and (c) get a reply with such angry. At least you didn't
(d) give up and say, "NOW I remember why I stopped posting...".
Howard
2011-04-06 04:02:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@LYC0S.C0M
Post by Howard
Post by j***@LYC0S.C0M
(But mostly I just posted in such an opinionated manner to see if this
newsgroup can be revived...).
Doubt it.
You doubt that why I responded so vehemently OR you doubt the ng can be
revived?
I guess newsgroup in general are at this point so "20th century" and
people have moved to tweeting and Facebooking.
One of the few I still read is the Springsteen one, which is mostly
politics (left-wing working class Springsteen has a small group of
rather outspoken right-wing fans- even a birther posts over there- go
figure).
If you look over there (rec.music.artists.springsteen) they're going
through a series of posts titled "Five from ____" with many of those
same "bad rock groups" mentioned.
"I can't believe Springsteen fans LISTEN to such crap..." I read, so it
was just more of the same when I read the linked article in the OP.
My apologies, Howard- must have been a shock to (a) post again, then (b)
get a reply and (c) get a reply with such angry.  At least you didn't
(d) give up and say, "NOW I remember why I stopped posting...".
I get angry too, just over different things. But I recognize, perhaps
more than you, the utter subjectivity regarding judgments of this
sort. I liked the (early) Doobies, you didn't. But to say their music
is junk or crap or whatever, as if that were empirically provable, is
silly. My visceral disgust when I hear Celine Dion on the radio (or
see Bush's ghostwritten memoir still selling copies) reveals much more
about me than it does about the quality or lack thereof of their work.

As for this group, I saw the RRHoF article and posted it on a whim.
But I have no illusions about any Warren forum regaining the level of
interest attained early this century. It was quite a ride, from the
comeback of LKY through the meso announcement and the final inevitable
conclusion. This group was an incredibly vibrant and active place ai
its peak. Other groups still have that, Springsteen as you say and the
Letterman group also comes to mind. The fact that their protagonists
are still walking around is the key.
j***@LYC0S.C0M
2011-04-06 11:22:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
But I recognize, perhaps
more than you, the utter subjectivity regarding judgments of this
sort. I liked the (early) Doobies, you didn't. But to say their music
is junk or crap or whatever, as if that were empirically provable, is
silly.
You're kidding me, right? You really think that I didn't know what I
wrote was my *opinion* - that YOU realized it, but I didn't?

No, it's obviously not "empirically provable" but, damn, if this isn't
some good anecdotal evidence, I don't know what is:

"Like a lazy flowing river
Surrounding castles in the sky
And the crowd is growing bigger
List'nin' for the happy sounds
And I got to let ‘em fly

Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
All the time
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
All the time
God, we gotta let the music play!"
Howard
2011-04-08 01:11:06 UTC
Permalink
 But I recognize, perhaps
more than you, the utter subjectivity regarding judgments of this
sort. I liked the (early) Doobies, you didn't. But to say their music
is junk or crap or whatever, as if that were empirically provable, is
silly.
You're kidding me, right?  You really think that I didn't know what I
wrote was my *opinion* - that YOU realized it, but I didn't?
No, it's obviously not "empirically provable" but, damn, if this isn't
"Like a lazy flowing river
Surrounding castles in the sky
And the crowd is growing bigger
List'nin' for the happy sounds
And I got to let em fly
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
All the time
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
All the time
God, we gotta let the music play!"
Ever look at some of Neil Young's music on the printed page? I can do
what you just did with all kinds of accomplished musicians.

Lame.
jrroland
2011-06-05 00:31:47 UTC
Permalink
 But I recognize, perhaps
more than you, the utter subjectivity regarding judgments of this
sort. I liked the (early) Doobies, you didn't. But to say their music
is junk or crap or whatever, as if that were empirically provable, is
silly.
You're kidding me, right?  You really think that I didn't know what I
wrote was my *opinion* - that YOU realized it, but I didn't?
No, it's obviously not "empirically provable" but, damn, if this isn't
"Like a lazy flowing river
Surrounding castles in the sky
And the crowd is growing bigger
List'nin' for the happy sounds
And I got to let ‘em fly
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
All the time
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
Wo, oh, oh, listen to the music
All the time
God, we gotta let the music play!"
Pure poetry!

Jim

Joanne Corsano
2011-05-23 01:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
admit I could not ID a song by either Kiss or T. Rex.
Oh sure you can. Rock and roll all night, and party ev-er-y day ...
that one's Kiss. Get it on, bang a gong, get it on ... that one's
T-Rex.

-Joanne



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